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	<title>Comments on: Art of the Genre: Art of the Iconic Female #3: Wonder Woman</title>
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	<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/</link>
	<description>Adventures in Fantasy Literature</description>
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		<title>By: Black Gate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Top 30 Black Gate Posts in June</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-15831</link>
		<dc:creator>Black Gate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Top 30 Black Gate Posts in June</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 04:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=34992#comment-15831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-Wonder-Woman [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-Wonder-Woman [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-15244</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 02:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=34992#comment-15244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sarah: It will be impossible for me to live the rest of my life without having flashes of your 7 year-old self spinning around you bedroom! :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah: It will be impossible for me to live the rest of my life without having flashes of your 7 year-old self spinning around you bedroom! <img src='http://www.blackgate.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Avery</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-15243</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Avery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 01:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=34992#comment-15243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wonder Woman was my first superhero. I was only dimly aware of Superman and the other big guys in comics, because I was only dimly aware of comics until college (and &lt;i&gt;Watchmen&lt;/i&gt; and wow). But Wonder Woman was on television, where I spent a lot of time at age seven, and I&#039;d never seen anything like her.

Some versions of her costume have been problematic, yeah, but when I was a seven year old girl spinning around and around in my room, pretending my army uniform was transforming into a gold bustier etc., I wasn&#039;t imagining that I was becoming sexy. I was imagining that I was becoming powerful, important, a force for good in the world. And if Wonder Woman makes it possible for the people who grew up on her image to look at a woman in revealing garments and imagine, even subliminally, that she&#039;s a powerful force for good in the world, then yay for Wonder Woman.

&lt;i&gt;I think a dissertation would be and entertaining read if what you say about Marsten is true.&lt;/i&gt;

The weird superpower of the dissertation as a genre is to make absolutely any topic dull. I accidentally wrote a dissertation chapter about ritual sex (I started my research with a question about why T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound et al. were so obsessed with the brand-new academic field of anthropology. Turns out the answer was ritual sex. Oops.) The chapter was only recognizable to my dissertation committee as academic writing at the point when I&#039;d rendered it boring to everyone, including myself. There&#039;s something really sad about eighty-seven pages on ritual sex with not one lively paragraph left.

That said, you can probably find some scholarly stuff about Wonder Woman at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.comicsresearch.org/academic.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ComicsResearch.org&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonder Woman was my first superhero. I was only dimly aware of Superman and the other big guys in comics, because I was only dimly aware of comics until college (and <i>Watchmen</i> and wow). But Wonder Woman was on television, where I spent a lot of time at age seven, and I&#8217;d never seen anything like her.</p>
<p>Some versions of her costume have been problematic, yeah, but when I was a seven year old girl spinning around and around in my room, pretending my army uniform was transforming into a gold bustier etc., I wasn&#8217;t imagining that I was becoming sexy. I was imagining that I was becoming powerful, important, a force for good in the world. And if Wonder Woman makes it possible for the people who grew up on her image to look at a woman in revealing garments and imagine, even subliminally, that she&#8217;s a powerful force for good in the world, then yay for Wonder Woman.</p>
<p><i>I think a dissertation would be and entertaining read if what you say about Marsten is true.</i></p>
<p>The weird superpower of the dissertation as a genre is to make absolutely any topic dull. I accidentally wrote a dissertation chapter about ritual sex (I started my research with a question about why T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound et al. were so obsessed with the brand-new academic field of anthropology. Turns out the answer was ritual sex. Oops.) The chapter was only recognizable to my dissertation committee as academic writing at the point when I&#8217;d rendered it boring to everyone, including myself. There&#8217;s something really sad about eighty-seven pages on ritual sex with not one lively paragraph left.</p>
<p>That said, you can probably find some scholarly stuff about Wonder Woman at <a href="http://www.comicsresearch.org/academic.html" rel="nofollow">ComicsResearch.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Scott Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-15242</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 00:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=34992#comment-15242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Darangrissom: You could well be right on the outfit, although I think it can be taken to extremes it doesn&#039;t need to be [see Adam Hughes].  I will continue to think of Wonder Woman fondly, and am very happy to promote her in some way in this list. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darangrissom: You could well be right on the outfit, although I think it can be taken to extremes it doesn&#8217;t need to be [see Adam Hughes].  I will continue to think of Wonder Woman fondly, and am very happy to promote her in some way in this list. <img src='http://www.blackgate.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: darangrissom</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-15241</link>
		<dc:creator>darangrissom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 00:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=34992#comment-15241</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I completely agree with your point about writing for comic books and writing for soap operas being similar.  One of the reasons DC has to reboot itself so often is their inability to handle the various reltionships which develop over time.

I have to disagree with you about Wonder Woman&#039;s appearance though.  I think it misses the essential feminist message of her character.  She&#039;s an Amazon, who lives in Man&#039;s World (her words).  She likes men, but she does not need them.

The character as portrayed in the comics is a positive role model for women.  To throw that away because she&#039;s wearing something no more risque than what a circus performer might wear (which can be said for most superhero costumes) I  think is unfair.  She was the first person on the cover of MS Magazine.  They didn&#039;t think the outfit was sexist, so what&#039;s changed?

Don&#039;t get me wrong, your point about women in comics is dead on, but you picked, in my opinion, a bad example.  Artists like Cliff Chiang (Wondeer Woman) and Mahmud Asrar (Supergirl) have done a great job in providing positive, less sexual, heroines while still creating dynamic feminine heroes in their comics.

I think a better example of over sexualization would be what Guillem March did with the upcoming Catwoman #0 cover.  Or have seen what they&#039;ve got Harley Quinn wearing these day!

as an aside, all the bondage powers WW had in the beginning where retconned about the same time you were watching Linda Carter on TV.  You know, back when she was a ninja for a few years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with your point about writing for comic books and writing for soap operas being similar.  One of the reasons DC has to reboot itself so often is their inability to handle the various reltionships which develop over time.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with you about Wonder Woman&#8217;s appearance though.  I think it misses the essential feminist message of her character.  She&#8217;s an Amazon, who lives in Man&#8217;s World (her words).  She likes men, but she does not need them.</p>
<p>The character as portrayed in the comics is a positive role model for women.  To throw that away because she&#8217;s wearing something no more risque than what a circus performer might wear (which can be said for most superhero costumes) I  think is unfair.  She was the first person on the cover of MS Magazine.  They didn&#8217;t think the outfit was sexist, so what&#8217;s changed?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, your point about women in comics is dead on, but you picked, in my opinion, a bad example.  Artists like Cliff Chiang (Wondeer Woman) and Mahmud Asrar (Supergirl) have done a great job in providing positive, less sexual, heroines while still creating dynamic feminine heroes in their comics.</p>
<p>I think a better example of over sexualization would be what Guillem March did with the upcoming Catwoman #0 cover.  Or have seen what they&#8217;ve got Harley Quinn wearing these day!</p>
<p>as an aside, all the bondage powers WW had in the beginning where retconned about the same time you were watching Linda Carter on TV.  You know, back when she was a ninja for a few years.</p>
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		<title>By: westkeith</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-15239</link>
		<dc:creator>westkeith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=34992#comment-15239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s been a number of years, so I may be misremembering some details, but IIRC Marsden was a psychology prof who had an affair with one of his female graduate students.  When he told his wife about it, she not only was OK with it, but went along with the idea that the three of them set up house together.  (I have no clue whose idea it was.)  He ended up having several children by each woman.  I don&#039;t recall where I read this other than it was one of the early history of comics.  I&#039;ll see if I can find the reference.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been a number of years, so I may be misremembering some details, but IIRC Marsden was a psychology prof who had an affair with one of his female graduate students.  When he told his wife about it, she not only was OK with it, but went along with the idea that the three of them set up house together.  (I have no clue whose idea it was.)  He ended up having several children by each woman.  I don&#8217;t recall where I read this other than it was one of the early history of comics.  I&#8217;ll see if I can find the reference.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-15235</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=34992#comment-15235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Westkeith: Nice introspection! I love it when readers add content with other interesting stories on the subject.  I think a dissertation would be and entertaining read if what you say about Marsten is true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Westkeith: Nice introspection! I love it when readers add content with other interesting stories on the subject.  I think a dissertation would be and entertaining read if what you say about Marsten is true.</p>
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		<title>By: westkeith</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2012/06/27/art-of-the-genre-art-of-the-iconic-female-3-wonder-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-15234</link>
		<dc:creator>westkeith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=34992#comment-15234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The sexual aspects of Wonder Woman have been there from the beginning.  Her image was &quot;purified&quot; after the Comics Code Authority was imposed, and the sexuality was gradually reintroduced as the Code was loosened.  Some of the early Wonder Woman stories that Marston wrote had some interesting, and by interesting I mean slightly kinky, overtones.  I remember one in which a young woman was tied up.  When she complained about it, Wonder Woman basically said she shouldn&#039;t let it bother her and implied she should enjoy it.  I&#039;ve seen speculation that some of the content was consistent with Marsten&#039;s personal life, which was a bit out of the mainstream.  There&#039;s a dissertation of two in there somewhere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sexual aspects of Wonder Woman have been there from the beginning.  Her image was &#8220;purified&#8221; after the Comics Code Authority was imposed, and the sexuality was gradually reintroduced as the Code was loosened.  Some of the early Wonder Woman stories that Marston wrote had some interesting, and by interesting I mean slightly kinky, overtones.  I remember one in which a young woman was tied up.  When she complained about it, Wonder Woman basically said she shouldn&#8217;t let it bother her and implied she should enjoy it.  I&#8217;ve seen speculation that some of the content was consistent with Marsten&#8217;s personal life, which was a bit out of the mainstream.  There&#8217;s a dissertation of two in there somewhere.</p>
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