<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Art of the Genre: The Art of Gor</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/</link>
	<description>Adventures in Fantasy Literature</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 04:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Black Gate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Art of the Genre: Why do they all want our women?</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-9095</link>
		<dc:creator>Black Gate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Art of the Genre: Why do they all want our women?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 04:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-9095</guid>
		<description>[...] I’m not sure what it is about this particular threat that men find so intriguing, but I’m betting it has come from the school of sacrificing virgins. It seems the subconscious mind of the Y chromosome simply gets off on the threat of female subjugation, or even the deliverance of said act [see Art of Gor]. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I’m not sure what it is about this particular threat that men find so intriguing, but I’m betting it has come from the school of sacrificing virgins. It seems the subconscious mind of the Y chromosome simply gets off on the threat of female subjugation, or even the deliverance of said act [see Art of Gor]. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7622</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 20:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7622</guid>
		<description>Again, never read Norman, but I will say this; If the likes of Abercrombie, Martin, and Goodkind can be not only published but raised on high as 'great' writers with huge book deals, TV shows, and $ for the absolute brutality they write, then Norman seems to deserve his spot alongside them.  I have to wonder why the U.S. society has such an issue with domination and yet raping and killing seems perfectly fine...  It makes no sense to me and frankly is the reason I moved to reading YA rather than standard fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, never read Norman, but I will say this; If the likes of Abercrombie, Martin, and Goodkind can be not only published but raised on high as &#8216;great&#8217; writers with huge book deals, TV shows, and $ for the absolute brutality they write, then Norman seems to deserve his spot alongside them.  I have to wonder why the U.S. society has such an issue with domination and yet raping and killing seems perfectly fine&#8230;  It makes no sense to me and frankly is the reason I moved to reading YA rather than standard fiction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tyr</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7620</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 17:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7620</guid>
		<description>GreenGestalt,

I don't think the books are disparaged because they are not PC. Rather, unlike yourself, the overwhelming majority of  people don't share your opinion of: "...kinda nice seeing a spoiled preppy b-tch beaten down."
However, I'm sure you have plenty of torture-porn drivel from Hollywood to sate your tastes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GreenGestalt,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the books are disparaged because they are not PC. Rather, unlike yourself, the overwhelming majority of  people don&#8217;t share your opinion of: &#8220;&#8230;kinda nice seeing a spoiled preppy b-tch beaten down.&#8221;<br />
However, I&#8217;m sure you have plenty of torture-porn drivel from Hollywood to sate your tastes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RPG News from Around the Net: 03-JUN-2011 &#124; Game Knight Reviews</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7618</link>
		<dc:creator>RPG News from Around the Net: 03-JUN-2011 &#124; Game Knight Reviews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 12:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7618</guid>
		<description>[...] NPCs&#8230; And who can forget the art of Boris Vallejo? Scott Taylor at Black Gate offers a few of Vallejo&#8217;s pieces related to the Gor book series. Nothing like old-school primal fantasy and half-naked women to get you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NPCs&#8230; And who can forget the art of Boris Vallejo? Scott Taylor at Black Gate offers a few of Vallejo&#8217;s pieces related to the Gor book series. Nothing like old-school primal fantasy and half-naked women to get you [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GreenGestalt</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7617</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenGestalt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 06:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7617</guid>
		<description>I like that you mentioned the "You can't judge a book by it's cover" saying.  That, more than the lurid Boris covers, drew me to the Gor books.  In my young life I'd heard that phrase ad-nauseum and so it gave me wicked pleasure to find something that was the exception to the rule...


However, the books do adhere to that rule because it isn't just what you see is what you get, they do have a message, a wickedly anti-PC one:-)


My favorite is this: http://www.jonrhus.com/books/?gorcover=Marauders+of+Gor#gor09c

Would you believe that Kelley Freas actually did some covers?  Here's his cover for that work: http://www.fictiondb.com/author/john-norman~marauders-of-gor~100160~b.htm  Superior to the Brit and IMO on par with Frazetta in his more Gernsback era fashion, but I like the Brit's one the best, just pure raw primal energy.


I bought Captive of Gor for the Lesbo erotica, kinda nice seeing a spoiled preppy b-tch beaten down.


I got "Assassin of Gor" 'cause the bondage setup on the cover was beyond the stuff even in dirty mags I could obtain at the time despite being non-explicit.  However, I LOVED that story in and out, for the cool adventure.


IMO, Gor is a victim of "Political Correctness" and not as those pushing that lie would have you believe a product of what the market supports in changing times but what is put into a largely monopolized market regardless of what did or did not sell.  Most good non-PC stuff sold regular until it disappeared from the market overnight.  Suddenly the company was bought out by someone else and the core titles were canceled.  Or in the case of DAW books the head had a heart attack and his daughter took over and canceled a lot, starting with GOR, before his body was even cool.


Prof Norman suddenly had no publisher and of course the entire market immediately ignored him.   Luckily he'd kept his "Day Job" as a real professor so it didn't drive him to drink and despair as the PC mafia did to so many others.


Norman should not have been taken off the market and blacklisted.  That he was was proof of this conspiracy I claim.  If we had a "Free Market" even by a geometric line he should have had at worst 10 more publications before he started to get too low a threshold to make it profitable and that's an IF because his fan base was growing and the awful movies gave him a larger reader base.


First, his books SOLD.  That should be first and last.  His books sold, they advertised themselves, and they made a LOT more than it cost to print and promote them.  Why close a seller?


Second, he was a publisher's dream writer.  He never let his fame/success go to his head.  He stayed a professor and gave a yearly manuscript, at worst on the 11th month a month ahead of the deadline.  Being a professor of education and history his manuscripts were flawlessly written with virtually no spelling/grammar problems and only requiring the slightest suggestions from the editor, which he happily worked with him.  He even didn't yammer over his script to the publisher, just left the pages with his secretary and a polite note and waited for the usual one-month later "Let's do lunch" so he could talk over changes/suggestions, etc.  He also just waited for his royalty checks to come, not needing the $ except to pad his savings.


Norman wasn't a brilliant writer, Lin Carter at best, but Carter was very good only reducing himself by accident since he'd saved so many greats from obscurity.  But Norman wrote good, sold well, gave the publisher little/no problems and he had a "Fan Base" that both would guarantee base sales/profit.


The only "Failing" that Norman had was that his work was fundamentally anti-PC when the forces controlling the media and market decided to force their PC tripe down the public's throat.


The other writers started making stories with women in primary or at least fashionably equal roles.  Also stuff showing perversions as OK "Alternative Lifestyles", all sorts of things attacking the image of the "Old Order" reducing classic sci-fi to mockery (Hey, spaceman spiff can breathe easy in his Asbestos space suit-hahaha) and worse to Sword and Sorcery.  But Norman had NO intention of leaving his expertly chiseled niche he defended as savagely as his super male barbarian heroes, so he had to go.



I personally not so much agree with Norman's vision as that I do think a media controlling force is behind this.  I don't for real want a world where men go around stabbing each other with Gladius and women are simpering slave girls.  I'd like to reverse laws and standards to 60s/50s but even then women are plenty manipulative/domineering enough, I wouldn't want them literally slave girls;  "Oh, golly master, I boopied in my loincloth!  But I am just a pleasure slave master, please clean it up.  Oh, goodness, your mighty sword is lowering!"  But on the other hand I'm really F-cking angry that so much out there is LAME PC SH-T that is boring and it's NOT that the "Groupthink" for real supports it it's that they've been spoon fed it and denied anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that you mentioned the &#8220;You can&#8217;t judge a book by it&#8217;s cover&#8221; saying.  That, more than the lurid Boris covers, drew me to the Gor books.  In my young life I&#8217;d heard that phrase ad-nauseum and so it gave me wicked pleasure to find something that was the exception to the rule&#8230;</p>
<p>However, the books do adhere to that rule because it isn&#8217;t just what you see is what you get, they do have a message, a wickedly anti-PC one:-)</p>
<p>My favorite is this: <a href="http://www.jonrhus.com/books/?gorcover=Marauders+of+Gor#gor09c" rel="nofollow">http://www.jonrhus.com/books/?gorcover=Marauders+of+Gor#gor09c</a></p>
<p>Would you believe that Kelley Freas actually did some covers?  Here&#8217;s his cover for that work: <a href="http://www.fictiondb.com/author/john-norman~marauders-of-gor~100160~b.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.fictiondb.com/author/john-norman~marauders-of-gor~100160~b.htm</a>  Superior to the Brit and IMO on par with Frazetta in his more Gernsback era fashion, but I like the Brit&#8217;s one the best, just pure raw primal energy.</p>
<p>I bought Captive of Gor for the Lesbo erotica, kinda nice seeing a spoiled preppy b-tch beaten down.</p>
<p>I got &#8220;Assassin of Gor&#8221; &#8217;cause the bondage setup on the cover was beyond the stuff even in dirty mags I could obtain at the time despite being non-explicit.  However, I LOVED that story in and out, for the cool adventure.</p>
<p>IMO, Gor is a victim of &#8220;Political Correctness&#8221; and not as those pushing that lie would have you believe a product of what the market supports in changing times but what is put into a largely monopolized market regardless of what did or did not sell.  Most good non-PC stuff sold regular until it disappeared from the market overnight.  Suddenly the company was bought out by someone else and the core titles were canceled.  Or in the case of DAW books the head had a heart attack and his daughter took over and canceled a lot, starting with GOR, before his body was even cool.</p>
<p>Prof Norman suddenly had no publisher and of course the entire market immediately ignored him.   Luckily he&#8217;d kept his &#8220;Day Job&#8221; as a real professor so it didn&#8217;t drive him to drink and despair as the PC mafia did to so many others.</p>
<p>Norman should not have been taken off the market and blacklisted.  That he was was proof of this conspiracy I claim.  If we had a &#8220;Free Market&#8221; even by a geometric line he should have had at worst 10 more publications before he started to get too low a threshold to make it profitable and that&#8217;s an IF because his fan base was growing and the awful movies gave him a larger reader base.</p>
<p>First, his books SOLD.  That should be first and last.  His books sold, they advertised themselves, and they made a LOT more than it cost to print and promote them.  Why close a seller?</p>
<p>Second, he was a publisher&#8217;s dream writer.  He never let his fame/success go to his head.  He stayed a professor and gave a yearly manuscript, at worst on the 11th month a month ahead of the deadline.  Being a professor of education and history his manuscripts were flawlessly written with virtually no spelling/grammar problems and only requiring the slightest suggestions from the editor, which he happily worked with him.  He even didn&#8217;t yammer over his script to the publisher, just left the pages with his secretary and a polite note and waited for the usual one-month later &#8220;Let&#8217;s do lunch&#8221; so he could talk over changes/suggestions, etc.  He also just waited for his royalty checks to come, not needing the $ except to pad his savings.</p>
<p>Norman wasn&#8217;t a brilliant writer, Lin Carter at best, but Carter was very good only reducing himself by accident since he&#8217;d saved so many greats from obscurity.  But Norman wrote good, sold well, gave the publisher little/no problems and he had a &#8220;Fan Base&#8221; that both would guarantee base sales/profit.</p>
<p>The only &#8220;Failing&#8221; that Norman had was that his work was fundamentally anti-PC when the forces controlling the media and market decided to force their PC tripe down the public&#8217;s throat.</p>
<p>The other writers started making stories with women in primary or at least fashionably equal roles.  Also stuff showing perversions as OK &#8220;Alternative Lifestyles&#8221;, all sorts of things attacking the image of the &#8220;Old Order&#8221; reducing classic sci-fi to mockery (Hey, spaceman spiff can breathe easy in his Asbestos space suit-hahaha) and worse to Sword and Sorcery.  But Norman had NO intention of leaving his expertly chiseled niche he defended as savagely as his super male barbarian heroes, so he had to go.</p>
<p>I personally not so much agree with Norman&#8217;s vision as that I do think a media controlling force is behind this.  I don&#8217;t for real want a world where men go around stabbing each other with Gladius and women are simpering slave girls.  I&#8217;d like to reverse laws and standards to 60s/50s but even then women are plenty manipulative/domineering enough, I wouldn&#8217;t want them literally slave girls;  &#8220;Oh, golly master, I boopied in my loincloth!  But I am just a pleasure slave master, please clean it up.  Oh, goodness, your mighty sword is lowering!&#8221;  But on the other hand I&#8217;m really F-cking angry that so much out there is LAME PC SH-T that is boring and it&#8217;s NOT that the &#8220;Groupthink&#8221; for real supports it it&#8217;s that they&#8217;ve been spoon fed it and denied anything else.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7611</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 03:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7611</guid>
		<description>Inspiration is tricky like that.  And it helps avoid ripping off other people's stories without filing off the serial numbers well enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Inspiration is tricky like that.  And it helps avoid ripping off other people&#8217;s stories without filing off the serial numbers well enough.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7601</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7601</guid>
		<description>Mary: Well said! And its the primary reason I do this blog, because often the art moves me far more than the story [but not always ;) ]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary: Well said! And its the primary reason I do this blog, because often the art moves me far more than the story [but not always <img src='http://www.blackgate.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> ]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7600</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7600</guid>
		<description>It's amazing what inspirations covers can be without considering the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s amazing what inspirations covers can be without considering the book.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7599</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7599</guid>
		<description>Theo: I guess our old DMs had the same idea about fantasy reading :) Glad you enjoyed the story, and always nice when you comment so I know you came by!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theo: I guess our old DMs had the same idea about fantasy reading <img src='http://www.blackgate.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Glad you enjoyed the story, and always nice when you comment so I know you came by!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Theodric the Obscure</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2011/06/01/art-of-the-genre-the-art-of-gor/comment-page-1/#comment-7595</link>
		<dc:creator>Theodric the Obscure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2011 23:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=21943#comment-7595</guid>
		<description>Great story, Scott.  My college DM's bookshelf is exactly where I found Gor...and left it after borrowing the first few books.  Couldn't stomach it after that.  And of course it was the covers that made me borrow them in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great story, Scott.  My college DM&#8217;s bookshelf is exactly where I found Gor&#8230;and left it after borrowing the first few books.  Couldn&#8217;t stomach it after that.  And of course it was the covers that made me borrow them in the first place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

