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	<title>Comments on: Adam Link, Kerfufflebot; or, Scalzi Over the Brown Rainbow</title>
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	<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2009/07/22/adam-link-kerfufflebot-or-scalzi-over-the-brown-rainbow/</link>
	<description>Adventures in Fantasy Literature</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 04:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Black Gate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On the problem of literary awards</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2009/07/22/adam-link-kerfufflebot-or-scalzi-over-the-brown-rainbow/comment-page-1/#comment-1034</link>
		<dc:creator>Black Gate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On the problem of literary awards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=2750#comment-1034</guid>
		<description>[...] was quite interested in James Enge&#8217;s previous post on the recent discourse about the Hugo Awards List by Adam Roberts and John Scalzi. It&#8217;s a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was quite interested in James Enge&#8217;s previous post on the recent discourse about the Hugo Awards List by Adam Roberts and John Scalzi. It&#8217;s a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: fritz freiheit.com blog » Link dump</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2009/07/22/adam-link-kerfufflebot-or-scalzi-over-the-brown-rainbow/comment-page-1/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>fritz freiheit.com blog » Link dump</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=2750#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>[...] Adam Link, Kerfufflebot; or, Scalzi Over the Brown Rainbow &#124;&#124; Black Gate.com (SF,Hugo,HugoAward) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Adam Link, Kerfufflebot; or, Scalzi Over the Brown Rainbow || Black Gate.com (SF,Hugo,HugoAward) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Enge</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2009/07/22/adam-link-kerfufflebot-or-scalzi-over-the-brown-rainbow/comment-page-1/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>James Enge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 04:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=2750#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>Hey John--

Thanks! Praise from a master is indeed gratifying. I know what you mean about award lists--they may not be  absolutely "correct" in establishing the 12.4 best books about android beekeepers in the last 2.7 years (or whatever their specific mandate is). But they can point people in a direction--suggest work to potential readers that they haven't thought of--introduce readers to a genre or new corners of a genre. So they're more like search-engine results than a seal of approval; they give you something to sift through.

Hey Gabe--

The Hugos are totally fan-nominated and voted. Anyone can buy a supporting membership to WorldCon and cast their vote, even if they're not going to attend the convention itself. (More specific info is online &lt;a href="http://www.wsfs.org/" rel="nofollow"&gt;at the World SF Society website&lt;/a&gt;.) So Scalzi is right about this: Roberts is deliberately slagging fandom (or at least the section of it that participates in the Hugo process).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey John&#8211;</p>
<p>Thanks! Praise from a master is indeed gratifying. I know what you mean about award lists&#8211;they may not be  absolutely &#8220;correct&#8221; in establishing the 12.4 best books about android beekeepers in the last 2.7 years (or whatever their specific mandate is). But they can point people in a direction&#8211;suggest work to potential readers that they haven&#8217;t thought of&#8211;introduce readers to a genre or new corners of a genre. So they&#8217;re more like search-engine results than a seal of approval; they give you something to sift through.</p>
<p>Hey Gabe&#8211;</p>
<p>The Hugos are totally fan-nominated and voted. Anyone can buy a supporting membership to WorldCon and cast their vote, even if they&#8217;re not going to attend the convention itself. (More specific info is online <a href="http://www.wsfs.org/" rel="nofollow">at the World SF Society website</a>.) So Scalzi is right about this: Roberts is deliberately slagging fandom (or at least the section of it that participates in the Hugo process).</p>
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		<title>By: Gabe</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2009/07/22/adam-link-kerfufflebot-or-scalzi-over-the-brown-rainbow/comment-page-1/#comment-1023</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=2750#comment-1023</guid>
		<description>I'm not too familiar with how the Hugo folks select their books. I've only followed the Nobel Prize for a while, and they only consult academics, critics, and other authors for their lists. Reason I bring this up is because Scalzi kept saying things along the lines of "we loved" the books or something like that, reinforcing the notion that Roberts is boo-hooing the people's books.

   How does the Hugo nominate its books? If it's anything like the Nobel prize, readers are never once consulted! I've had a beef with the Nobel comittee for some ten years now, and I've got a feeling it might be the same with the Hugo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not too familiar with how the Hugo folks select their books. I&#8217;ve only followed the Nobel Prize for a while, and they only consult academics, critics, and other authors for their lists. Reason I bring this up is because Scalzi kept saying things along the lines of &#8220;we loved&#8221; the books or something like that, reinforcing the notion that Roberts is boo-hooing the people&#8217;s books.</p>
<p>   How does the Hugo nominate its books? If it&#8217;s anything like the Nobel prize, readers are never once consulted! I&#8217;ve had a beef with the Nobel comittee for some ten years now, and I&#8217;ve got a feeling it might be the same with the Hugo.</p>
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		<title>By: John ONeill</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2009/07/22/adam-link-kerfufflebot-or-scalzi-over-the-brown-rainbow/comment-page-1/#comment-1022</link>
		<dc:creator>John ONeill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=2750#comment-1022</guid>
		<description>Nicely done, James.  

When I ran the SF Site, we had an annual Top Ten list every year (and the site still does).  Administering that list taught me a great deal about both the inherent value of awards, and their entirely fickle nature. If I were more of a cynic I might dismiss them outright; instead I cling to the opinion that awards, and especially major awards, serve a valuable purpose: they are a wonderfully effective marketing tool for the genre.

I for one can't read a decent Top Ten list without scurrying off to add a title or two to my Amazon Wish List, even today.  Regardless of how effectively the lists draw attention to books of actual value (and I often remain fairly cynical about that), they help SELL books, and that's crucially important, especially today.

Are they selling the RIGHT books?  Well, of course.  They're selling the books that bring money to publishers and authors and keep our industry thriving,  and they're introducing readers to books that they might not otherwise have tried.  And they're doing both of those things outside the means by which they're usually done - through expensive marketing campaigns that usual favor excusively best selling authors.

By those measures alone, the Hugo Award short list does a tremendous service. Expecting it to also be a perfect arbiter of taste seems like it's asking a lot.  I've learned to be content with the Hugo lists as they are, and it's brought me more peace and contentment.  :)

- John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely done, James.  </p>
<p>When I ran the SF Site, we had an annual Top Ten list every year (and the site still does).  Administering that list taught me a great deal about both the inherent value of awards, and their entirely fickle nature. If I were more of a cynic I might dismiss them outright; instead I cling to the opinion that awards, and especially major awards, serve a valuable purpose: they are a wonderfully effective marketing tool for the genre.</p>
<p>I for one can&#8217;t read a decent Top Ten list without scurrying off to add a title or two to my Amazon Wish List, even today.  Regardless of how effectively the lists draw attention to books of actual value (and I often remain fairly cynical about that), they help SELL books, and that&#8217;s crucially important, especially today.</p>
<p>Are they selling the RIGHT books?  Well, of course.  They&#8217;re selling the books that bring money to publishers and authors and keep our industry thriving,  and they&#8217;re introducing readers to books that they might not otherwise have tried.  And they&#8217;re doing both of those things outside the means by which they&#8217;re usually done - through expensive marketing campaigns that usual favor excusively best selling authors.</p>
<p>By those measures alone, the Hugo Award short list does a tremendous service. Expecting it to also be a perfect arbiter of taste seems like it&#8217;s asking a lot.  I&#8217;ve learned to be content with the Hugo lists as they are, and it&#8217;s brought me more peace and contentment.  <img src='http://www.blackgate.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>- John</p>
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		<title>By: James Enge</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2009/07/22/adam-link-kerfufflebot-or-scalzi-over-the-brown-rainbow/comment-page-1/#comment-1021</link>
		<dc:creator>James Enge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=2750#comment-1021</guid>
		<description>Absolutely. Genuine, committed academics are really (and always were) just a tweedy and specialized variety of geek. And nowadays there's more overlap between geeky communities than there ever was.

I have a sense that some people (I'm not talking about Scalzi, but the attitude shows up a bit in the comment sections of the two posts linked above) are working out their hostility toward the Prof. Schmeckenfrauzer who gave them a C- in Interpretive Dance or something, and they can't distinguish between any academic and that one (or those ones) who made them feel bad. A little tweed is like a red flag to them; they can't help but charge at it. Those people are more to be pitied than censured, I guess. But I prefer to censure them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely. Genuine, committed academics are really (and always were) just a tweedy and specialized variety of geek. And nowadays there&#8217;s more overlap between geeky communities than there ever was.</p>
<p>I have a sense that some people (I&#8217;m not talking about Scalzi, but the attitude shows up a bit in the comment sections of the two posts linked above) are working out their hostility toward the Prof. Schmeckenfrauzer who gave them a C- in Interpretive Dance or something, and they can&#8217;t distinguish between any academic and that one (or those ones) who made them feel bad. A little tweed is like a red flag to them; they can&#8217;t help but charge at it. Those people are more to be pitied than censured, I guess. But I prefer to censure them.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Avery</title>
		<link>http://www.blackgate.com/2009/07/22/adam-link-kerfufflebot-or-scalzi-over-the-brown-rainbow/comment-page-1/#comment-1020</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Avery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blackgate.com/?p=2750#comment-1020</guid>
		<description>Thank you! Anybody who wants to keep his or her books in print, or see them get back into print after they've fallen out, had better hope for friendly academics to come along and start assigning them to undergrads.

Alice Walker may be the person who went looking for Zora Neale Hurston, but without hundreds of professors following Walker's lead and assigning Hurston's books to their students, those books would have stayed lost.

The assumption that we in the genres ought to meet academic hostility with hostility is outdated. The best of our forebears are getting welcomed into the canon just fine on their merits, and some of us will, too. Any genre writer who has a favorite forebear who's being unjustly neglected is free to pull an Alice Walker. Geek culture is pervasive now, and there are plenty of fanboys and fangirls with tenured gigs who care what genre writers have to say. Being pissy at them because of anti-genre assumptions that were common among their long-retired mentors helps no one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you! Anybody who wants to keep his or her books in print, or see them get back into print after they&#8217;ve fallen out, had better hope for friendly academics to come along and start assigning them to undergrads.</p>
<p>Alice Walker may be the person who went looking for Zora Neale Hurston, but without hundreds of professors following Walker&#8217;s lead and assigning Hurston&#8217;s books to their students, those books would have stayed lost.</p>
<p>The assumption that we in the genres ought to meet academic hostility with hostility is outdated. The best of our forebears are getting welcomed into the canon just fine on their merits, and some of us will, too. Any genre writer who has a favorite forebear who&#8217;s being unjustly neglected is free to pull an Alice Walker. Geek culture is pervasive now, and there are plenty of fanboys and fangirls with tenured gigs who care what genre writers have to say. Being pissy at them because of anti-genre assumptions that were common among their long-retired mentors helps no one.</p>
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